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SSJ2 Vegito Buu Arc vs SBV2
Topic Started: Oct 25 2014, 04:56 PM (981 Views)
+ Majin Vegeta
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The resident GT fan!

As long as you dont place SBV2 farr ahead of a hypothetica SSJ2 Vegito im completly fine, and i agree that Baby Vegeta has many teckniques at his disposal to take down Vegito, even if they are equals.

By the way why do you hate the SSJ3 term :p ?
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

Well, sorry to dredge off topic, but it just sounds lazy. We get Great Ape/Oozaru, Super Saiyan and Ascended Saiyan for the first three transformed/evolved forms of the Saiyans, then the name of Ascended Saiyan gets retconned to Super Saiyan 2 so we can just call the new one Super Saiyan Three. Not even Class 3 or Level 3, just 3 like a poorly named sequel. I know that cherry picking English words and tossing them into the manga sounded cool, and I guess three sounds really cool in Japan. But we already used Ascended, why not step it up a notch. Like Transcended or Ultimate or Grand or something. I assume Transcended would be incredibly difficult to pronounce with a Japanese inflection, but we still used Ascended, it'd just be a couple more syllables. It just... frustrates me. Lazy, lazy, lazy...

But back to the topic, yeah I think it would be a cool fight and Ascended Vegetto would get some serious hits in, but I'm a firm believer that he would lose a fight against Super Baby Vegeta in his final, non Oozaru, form.
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+ Yusuke
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TheACE
Oct 26 2014, 08:10 PM
Lol sorry I had to take a pot shot, you dropped the SSJ3 over Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond. And you know I just hate the term Super Saiyan Three (So goddamn lazy, couldn't step it up a notch and just say Transcended Saiyan? Sounds so much better)

My only thing about Super Baby Vegeta II is that I figure it would make sense, given that its another transformation, amped with hatred, that he'd still have a hard edge on an Ascended Super Vegetto. Power levels aside, because we can go back and forth with the numbers that end up being arbitrary at the end of the day anyway (wow look at this run on sentence), I'd put Baby Vegeta over Vegetto either way.

After the inital one, his Revenge Death Ball has a 2 second channel time and he can drop it like it's hot. He can use final flash and Big Bang, and he seems to retain all of Vegeta's training and skill ontop of his own genius. I don't think that Vegetto can compete with that.
Well the term "Ascended Beyond" just sounds redundant., no offence or anything. Might as well call SSJ4 "Super Ascended Beyond Super Saiyan" or whatever.

Numbers might not matter yes but at the end of the day the overall powerscalling is what matters. Unless Goku was talking about some off-screen fighter that we somehow don't know about, where left to assume SSJ Vegetto is the ki that SBV1 surpassed. Sorry but the whole "DB being an action show" argument isn't going to cut it Ace.

Moveset's don't really matter much if a fighter is heavily outclassed. That's not to say that's the case here but in general all that won't matter if the power difference is too great.
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TheACE
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The Last GT Fighter

... Urameshi wants to play. Ok... game on:

Everything wrong with Yusuke's Post in 5 minutes or less.
Warning: Spoilers (Duh)

1. The term I lifted from Goku's speech is Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond. You had the quote and didn't use it, that's one sin there. Two because here's the video: Is To Go Even Further Beyond So it's a little hybridized, but still clear. +1, +1

2. I'm actually OK with Super Saiyan Four given that it's clearly an ancient power referred to specifically by name by the Old Kai, and is probably the official term. +1

3. If I did make up a name for Super Saiyan Four, it would have to be Saiyan Of Lore. Booyah +1

4. Power scaling factors in, but what happens on screen is what happens on screen. We call those Feats. +1

5.To compound number four: You clearly and apparently need a definition of cinema. Cinema: The art of simulating experiences, that communicate ideas, stories, perceptions, feelings, beauty or atmosphere by the means of recorded or programmed moving images along with other sensory stimulations. Meaning Moving Images > other sensory stiumulations. Meaning ACTION outweighs WORDS by definition. There are no special rules here because it's a Japanese show. That's like saying you get special laws of physics because you're in Japan and not in America, all the same rules apply. +1 +1 +1

6. Redundant: repeating something else and therefore unnecessary (Definition according to Madame Miriam Webster, she's got a pretty good grasp of English). What you take issue with is the known fact that it takes a really long time to say or type out "Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond." Which is fine, but frankly I don't mind typing it, so I'm doing a sin. +1 +1

7. While I'm nitpicking, "Where left to assume" would be a physical place we have to assume things. No offense. +1

8. I'm taking a sin off because I like the use of offence, the alternate spelling is quite cool. -1

9. And I'm going backwards in the post a bit, but you've yet do debunk that Actions are superior to words in general,
never the less in Dragon Ball. Unless Dragon Ball is now WWE and I didn't get the memo. In which case I guess I'll leave this statement un-sinned. But yeah, step into the arena with your words and see how well they hold up to a spinning back kick. Trust me I've tried, I am sticking with the clinch and knee combos now.

10. Sure Goku could be talking about some off screen fighter. We still have Beerus, Whis or whoever else is hanging around the universe. And there's a 15 year gap between the Buu conflict and the current Baby conflict, a metric s*** ton of things could have happened in that time that they didn't bother animating. Possibly because the story wouldn't have been that interesting, but I digress. +1

11. For that matter, assuming it WAS Super Vegetto that Goku is referencing, even though he says every major villian he fights is the strongest Ki he's ever felt but whatever won't sin that, he surpassed him before that Transformation was complete. I don't know what the formal multiplier is for Super Baby Vegetas, but if it's anything like Ascended Saiyan or Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond (And yes, I'm still saying it) then it's safe to assume Baby Vegeta got to be twice as strong from there, still keeping a hard edge on an Ascended Vegetto. +1

12. More nitpicking. When movesets mattered:
Krillin & Gohan vs Dodoria (An over 10000 point deficit? Dat Taiyoken) +1
Piccolo & Goku vs Raditz (An opponent that outclasses the both of us 3 to 1 and he can bounce our toughest attacks away? Wish we had an armor piercing finishing move) +1
Goku vs Vegeta Round I (Hmmm, his base level is twice that of mine, if only I had a move to do something about that, maybe one that grants a red aura) +1
Krillin & Gohan vs Guldo (These little brats are fast and tough, wish I had a move that allowed me to stop them) +1
Goku vs Pikkon (Hmmmm, that Thunder Flash is one hell of a blast, if only I had a move that could position me somewhere advantageous) +1
Krillin vs Frieza (Well this guy is gonna kill my friends, if only I had a way to pierce his superior defense) +1
Well, I'm just being a d*** with that last one. - 1
But I can go on. Even with a major power disadvantage, you can still make it out alive with a good moveset. It helps to be a hero though, you know for plot purposes. +1

Sin Count: 19.
Sentence: Arbitrary Numbers! (For OVER 9000 Years!)



But in all seriousness, I honestly think at this point, if characters are within scale then movesets matter quite a bit. Doesn't matter if your Super Kamehameha can shatter stars, if a guy has a technique that's strong enough that he can charge up in a second, versus your Kamehameha that takes five seconds to declare, never the less prepare, aim and use, then it's not gonna do you much good. Hard edge still to Baby Vegeta here.
Edited by TheACE, Oct 27 2014, 12:23 AM.
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+ Majin Vegeta
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The resident GT fan!

Im only gonna replie to 11 since i agree with pretty much anything else ^_^

Goku only mentioned the strongest ki ever felt once more at M12 after observing Fat Janemba, and to be honest he actually was the strongest ki Goku felt at that time, Goku was stronger in the movie and was forced to use SSJ3 FP to take down Janemba, besides him he only sensed Fat Buu, and i believe Fat Janemba > Fat Buu therefore making the statement true.
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